We are carnivores

As paleo and primal become more complex, authoritarian, licensed, profit driven, subverted and infected with fear based marketing efforts, Primal North seeks to simplify, unify, and advocate a proper level of scientific skepticism to the world of paleo, primal and low carb nutrition. Meat is food, plants are medicine, food is fuel, and movement is pleasure. Lets stop making a mess of it!

Saturday, January 26, 2013

Full Circle: The Futility of the Perfect Health Diet


Guest post by Liz of Mostly Meat Is What I Eat.


The USDA Food Pyramid / MyPlate:

 We all know and loath these, the face of evil grain-pushing bureaucrats feeding the growing obesity/diabetes epidemics, high in insulin-stimulating carbs and low in satiating fats.
A highly doubt anyone reading this blog will be defending these things. There are many many things I can say about what's wrong with the USDA food guidelines, and many people have explained this better than I ever could. Suffice it to say if you're reading this kind of blog then you've got a good idea of what's wronf with the USDA recommendations.

This really summarises what I think about the food pyramid:

Anyway, some numbers:
  • 6-11 servings grains @ 1 oz (or 1/2cup cooked rice) per serving = 6-11 oz
  • 3-5 servings vegtables @ 1 cup raw leafy or 1/2 cup other per serving = 3-5 cups leafy, 1.5-2.5 cups other
  • 2-4 fruit @ 1 medium (eg apple) = 2-4 medium fruits
  • 2-3 dairy @ 1 cup milk or 2 oz cheese = 2-3 cups dairy
  • 2-3 servings meat @ 3 oz cooked per servings = 6-9 oz cooked per day = 8-12 oz raw estimated

Comparing for a age 19-30 male the pyramid and plate compare like this:
...PyramidPlate
Meat6-9 oz (cooked)
~8-12 oz (raw)
6.5 oz (cooked)
~8 2/3 (raw)
Veg4 cups3 cups
Fruit1.5 cups2 cups
Grains9 oz8 oz
Dairy2-3 cups3 cups
Fat/Sugar73g in total7 tsp ?added?
2000kcal: 6oz grains, 2.5c veg, 2c fruit, 3c milk, 5.5oz meat.   http://www.choosemyplate.gov/food-groups/downloads/MiniPoster.pdf

In general all the amounts have been reduced due to decreasing calorie allowances in an attempt to curb obesity, while dairy and fruit has increased slightly.



Baby Steps:

When paleo was first born is was still low fat (the idea that grain-fed and wild animals are lower in fat than grain-fed animals, failing to realise that man selectively hunted the fattest prey they could find (link), and wiped out all the super-fat mega-fauna), but removed high carb grains, legumes, and starchy tubers. You ate meat, lots of fruit and vegetables (sometimes fruit was limited a bit), nuts/seeds, and limited added fats amd salts. Lots of fish was recommended to balance against the omega-6 fatty acids in all nuts/seeds. It worked, people got very healthy as it was low in carbs, high in fat (though maybe not an ideal mix of fats) and protein.

A major problem with low fat paleo is what's sometimes called the 'faileo' diet, as a diet low in carbs AND fat must either be very low calorie or very high protein, both of which cause problems. Too low calories can cause starvation and muscle wasting, too high protein can cause toxicity aka rabbit starvation.




Higher Meat/Fat Paleo:
Paleo soon learnt that fat was fine, and that animal fats were more ideal than nuts/seeds. Fruit was emphasised as being more fattening than vegetables and to be limited.


This is the updated version of Mark Sission's food pyramid, the old one is the similarly coloured one in the low-fat paleo section. Notice how meat is emphasised over vegetables, fruit is put much higher, and that healthy fats are given a place about half way up.

Soon pyramids were being bad that had fat even lower down, equal with meat at the bottom. Lots of vegetables were still encouraged, and a small amount of fruit (preferably berries), with optional small amounts also of nuts/seeds, starchy tubers.

Dairy, once vilified by paleo, had been welcomed back in some forms of high-fat paleo, or what's now called primal. High-fat dairy such as cream or butter, fermented, or raw forms were preferred.






This is one of my favourite primal pyramids, with fat in a group at the bottom, followed by meat and veggies, smaller amounts of dairy, then berries:



Or this plate emphasising fat, protein, some vegetables and minimal fruit:


Here's the Weston A Price's food pyramid, with fatty meats at the bottom, followed by dairy, eggs, more fat, then vegetables and fatty fruit, berries, and some grains at the very top:

Replace the grains with tubers and you have a very nice primal diet, very rich in fat and low in carbs.





But is replacing grains with tubers enough to make a healthy primal diet? We'll see after two honourable mentions...



A very simple one, feel free to play with the proportions.




Perfect Health Diet:

The new recommendations for the perfect health diet includes:
  • 1/2 - 1 lbs meat
  • 1 lb starchy tubers and white rice
  • 1 lb sweet vegetables (eg carrots), berries, and other fruit
  • 1 lb or more other vegetables
...
2000kcal: 6oz grains, 2.5c veg, 2c fruit, 3c milk, 5.5oz meat.   http://www.choosemyplate.gov/food-groups/downloads/MiniPoster.pdf

Tubers like potatoes are ~20% carb, bread is ~50%, and at 16oz versus 8oz recommendations this means the Perfect Health Diet recommends ~80% the starch the MyPlate does! The only real difference is that grains are replaced with tubers! Estimating with weight to cups, it actually contains more fruit/sweet vegetables than the USDA recommends too!

...MyPyramidMyPlatePHD
Meat6-9 oz (cooked)
~8-12 oz (raw)
6.5 oz (cooked)
~8 2/3 (raw)
8-16 oz
Veg4 cups3 cups16 oz = ~5 cups chopped broccoli
Fruit1.5 cups2 cups16 oz = ~3.5 cups chopped carrots
or ~3 cups strawberries
Grains9 oz8 oz16 oz tubers (= ~6 1/2oz grain equivalent)
Dairy2-3 cups3 cups...
Fat/Sugar73g in total
7 tsp ?added?

4tbsp = 60g


Here's an edit of the food plate showing how full circle 'paleo' has gone with the Perfect Health Diet:


Seriously, the Perfect Health diet recommends 15% calories from protein, ~30-40% carbs, rest from fat. This is like eating pizza, albeit gluten-free pizza but still pizza! Domino's "Might Meaty" large pizza is 2200 calories, 21% protein, 31% carbs, 48% fat, this is slightly higher protein than the Perfect Health diet recommends so better take some meat off the pizza, and make sure to order it gluten-free (they do this now). Do you really think this makes such a difference? Eating this kind of diet is like eating junk food, swapping grains for tubers will hardly change the diet from a hugely obesogenic one to a healthy one! Seriously, replacing one kind of carbohydrate with another isn't going to make a difference for many people.


We need to stop mucking about and go back to what worked: when paleo was low-carb.

Here's what I think we should be eating:







One last picture that made me laugh quite a bit:

16 comments:

  1. I agree. The body uses digestion to convert food to their essential elements, which is what the body can utilize. Changing one carbohydrate for another will have some benefit depending on what is added by processing and agricultural contamination, but still the body will have to deal with the load of carbohydrates you put on him without regard of the source.

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    1. Yes its funny with the latest book we noted a huge increase in total carb load. For years its been well established the WORST diet is one both high in carbs AND fat together. Even low fat high carb does better in trials, and with the latest book it seems the PHD has gone right back to the carb/protein/fat profile used to fatten pigs...

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    2. True! The Perfect Health Diet is the Low Carb Paleo Diet.

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    3. Actually the PHD is now rather high in both carb and fat which is a terrible combo... its essentially the food plate with tubers in place of bread. I have a feeling severely obese people are not going to find many of the benefits of a truly low carb diet if done as prescribed.

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  2. I know Danny I think some are looking for a niche to make more money and have gone back to main stream line of thinking, trying to make Paleo more acceptable and are doing a disservice to the people and the Paleo movement. I always suspected the PHD with his speculation about a requirement for a carbohydrates and the unsubstantiated accusation about LC. Is a shame but some of the CICO mantra and SAD diet ideas have being infiltrated and have become accepted with very little regard to the science.

    I believe that for the great majority of the population excess carb is a problem, some may be able to cope because of genetics, environment or youth. Just as some may tolerate more abuse from alcohol or cigarettes, but the basic template should be Low Carb Paleo. That’s why I claim that is the true perfect health diet.

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    1. Ahh ok thanks for clarifying I must have misread this morning :)

      And I agree, sadly the original PHD was much closer to the mark then the revised edition. Paul has been driking to much of the potato kool-aid.

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    2. Paul's diet is based on science. What is your assertion based on? If you have actually read his book and his website, it's quite a stretch (and borders on slander) to claim that he supposedly found this so-called niche to make money.

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    3. Peter its not slander to point out someone marketing a diet book, which carries a price tag and is not free, is out to make money. The fact the book requires purchase should make that patently obvious. And yes, the PHD is a niche market compared to even the sheer amount of people who have done Atkins over the past 40 years, just like all of paleo combined is a niche.

      Slander? Serious?

      As for based on science...

      The food plate, the Ornish Diet, and a gazillion other diets are "based on science", which as a statement says nothing about the quality of that science. The PHD is filled with correlation = causation speculation based on food studies. Have you actually read the citations or were you one of the 99.9999% that assumed that just because there is abundant citation they are actually containing proof?

      Where is the "good science" that low carb causes scurvy, and that glucose deficiency even exists? Those making bold claims should have bold proof.

      And since my "assertions" cost you nothing to read you can assume my motives are at least not profit driven, even though I am not the author of this fine article.

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  3. Agreed, the old PHD was much better, less sweet vegetables/fruit, less talk of 'glucose deficiency' of which Jaminet STILL hasn't actually addressed any of my criticisms, etc. Like why isn't the ZC community dropping dead of this factitious disease?

    I do think that the PHD is a good intro to paleo eating, compared to SAD it's brilliant, but it's not enough changes for many people who are severely metabolically broken and NEED VLC/ZC to be able to improve their health problems. I'm all for cutting out grains, vegetable oils, etc, and eating plenty of meat, broth, etc. But his plant:animal ratio is well off and getting worse. He's so scared of this 'glucose deficiency' that he keep raising the amount of glucose we need in our diet, first was ~20%, then 30%, and I even heard him mention 40% once... 40% carbs, 15% protein, mmm sounds just like a SAD diet to me!

    The PHD is probably fine for someone who's never had health problems (so why would they be changing to it then??), or a Kitavan but a post-SAD obese, diabetic person, with a myriad of other health complaints won't get the results they need on the PHD, they need VLC/ZC, lots of meat, and most importantly VERY LITTLE CARBS!

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    1. Very few or very little in the way of carbs

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  4. It's really a shame. I like about 80% of the PHD books, but I feel the carb recommendation goes off the rails. One of the most interesting chapters details how most (all) mammals end up eating a high-fat, LC diet once their pre/post gut is finished. The conclusion for humans: eat more carbs than them because of our 'big brains' -- a concept not supported by any of the previous evidence.

    The keto chapter also feels out of place. All these benefits of a VLC diet, but nah, better get your 30-40% carbs.

    I was happy to see most of the DIRE DEATH warnings about glucose deficiency were missing/minimized in the new version. That kind of speculative conjecture has no place in the otherwise well thought out book.

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    1. I am with you there, when you step back and look at the forest, not the individual trees Paul assembles, you see some glaring inconsistency of advice and it seems to be the idea we can all have our cake and eat it too. Especially the idea that flooding the liver with MCT or cooonut is going to have our bodies uptaking ketones even in the constant presence of insulin and absence of glucagon. In such a state typically only glucose damaged cells will uptake the ketone bodies, and these are the very people who would most benefit from carb absence.

      Secretly I hope my (and others) repeated and public challenges to produce actual evidence (Not just someone commenting on his blog that their thyroid exploded til they tried yams) and even the odd Facebook debate with Paul were a partial incentive for the toning down of those "DANGER DANGER DANGER" warnings.

      An example

      Even his own self diagnosed scurvy is suspect as he lacked the primary onset symptoms of bleeding gums and loose teeth and was also eating 1 pound of plants a day on his supposed zero carb diet. I really do not think his personal experience on a zero carb diet qualifies him to discuss it since he never actually did a true zero carb diet.

      He butresses this case for scurvy with testimony from Danny Roddy who supposedly developed scurvy on his zero carb diet. Danny Roddy did get scurvey, because he was also water fasting and restricting his entire nutritional intake to 7 OZ of pemmican a day (to me that is not zero carb as zero carbers eat ad lib and promote drinking LOTS of water, that is STARVATION and DEHYDRATION). He also "cured" his scurvy not by adding plants or vitamin C, but by resuming a higher daily amount of pemmican... so by just eating to satiety, and normal use of water. Sadly, Danny has deleted all his food logs which prove this but there is an entire community that supported him at the time that remember the incident quite clearly. Paul has seemed to have failed in his due diligence in verifiying his testimonials.

      I could go on and on... LOL

      Thanks for your comments they are welcome.

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    2. Brain, really does seem like his fear is stopping him connecting the dots properly. Why are zero carbers dropping like flies for a start? Volek and Phinney's cyclist study showed we can easily make well over 50g glucose a day from other sources, and i find it amusing that that's jaminet's minimum allowance...

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  5. The only people tp get scurvy on zero carb are Danny roddy (starvation), Mel (diarrhoea from before starting zc so starvation, also on pemmican), and Paul jaminet whom never actually ate zc as veggies don't count apparently...

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  6. I'm a pre-diabetic overweight mid-40s female for whom the PHD as described in the Jaminet book was a huge FAIL. Increased fasting glucose, ten lbs of weight gain, terribly increased cravings. I'm staying away from the yams and rice now for good.

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    1. Thanks yes I find I have the same troubles with potatoes and rice as I do with bread, just to a lesser degree, but eventually their daily use comes back to haunt me in so many ways...

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Approximately half the comments I get are only semi interactive, with the real goal of adding a hyperlink to some commercial product. Just enough text to get past a spam filter.

For this reason I moderate all comments, all the time. I do not delete comments that disagree with me, I welcome them.

I do not approve any comment that contains a link to a commercial product. Such links are not required to make a comment.

In short if you came to pretend to interact but instead advertise, you are wasting your time.

Debate is welcome.